Of all the genres in the modern music family, Improvisation is the ugly duckling; the evil twin of composition. Ignored and misunderstood, confined to spend most of its days chained up among the dusty cobwebs of obscure record store basements and mail-order warehouses, a lifetime searching for coppers down the back of the sofa beckons for the Improv artist. In a world where industry-generated brands far outnumber genuine artists, Lou Larson (financial status unknown) has represented the antithesis to the Universal/Sony/EMI/Warner juggernaut for longer than a US exit strategy. His latest project – America’s Next Hero (http://www.myspace.com/americasnexthero) – is an experimental guitar/tabla duo. Who better to ask then where music’s misunderstood offspring is heading in 2006? The Gaudie met him to discuss free-form Jazz, American politics and working within “The Machine”.
In a cafe somewhere in cyberspace:
Gaudie: Morning Lou, so do you have any plans for today or are you just going to make it up as you go along?
Larson: (silence accompanied by weary grin)
Let’s start at the beginning. When did you start writing/playing music?
I started playing guitar when I was 8 years old. I’m 39 now, so that’s more than 30 years. I remember seeing Jimi Hendrix on TV and I convinced my parents to buy me a guitar.
What did your parents make of this? Was it a musical life chez Larson?
My father could play some basic things on guitar. He played in a band in High School. I remember hearing some things recorded on reel-to-reel. It was your basic 50’s rock style.
My parents enjoy listening to music, and my Dad had pretty diverse tastes. He liked everything from jazz to rock and was an avid record collector. My Dad even built his own Hi-Fi system.
My parents (Louis II, and Gayle Larson) had a huge influence on me. My father was incredible smart, and overcame tremendous odds as a cancer survivor to lead a full life. My mother is the definition of tenacity, and has been a true inspiration.
And when did you realise music was going to be more than a hobby?
I never had formal lessons until I got to University, but they set me straight. I studied Classical Guitar & Music Composition and I did complete my degree.
There’s been some talk agonising over a name for your next project. How important is the name of a band, in general, and what does it say about the people behind it?
I think the name should represent something about the band, even if it is our sarcasm. The new name of the group is official: Americas next hero and the Darlings of Kali.
Wow! An exclusive scoop. I’ll alert the Mirror.
We have gone back to being a Duo, having bass was pretty cool, but having a third person made it more difficult to organize rehearsals and gigs. We might add a “guest Artist” from time to time, but we are sticking with the duo format.
The far reaches of northern Scotland don’t currently seem to be on your touring schedule. I’ll let that slide for now, but could you describe the America’s Next Hero live experience?
The music is 100% improvised. The venues we usually play, draw a “listening” audience. That is people who are used to seeing free-jazz or experimental music.
Do you have a particular listener in mind or are you writing for yourself?
This music is definitely “art for art’s sake.”
So to go a bit high-brow for a moment, is a life without art a life without meaning?
I wouldn’t say “without meaning”, but I would say “not very satisfying.”
Do you find the reaction of the crowd affects your performance, particularly as the music is constantly evolving?
It is important to stress that we don’t play any “songs”. We strive to create new music at every performance, everything is 100% improvised.
The mood of the crowd influences the music, if the crowd is really into it, it really pushes us to create something exciting.
And I guess the opposite is true as well? Can an apathetic crowd affect your performance and in what way? Is there anything you can do to inspire a crowd who just aren’t ‘feeling’ it?
It is sometimes impossible to inspire an apathetic crowd. The only “apathetic crowds” I know of are a result of “bad booking.”
We are pretty good at what we do, and if we are performing for a crowd that
has an open mind, they will usually get it.
The crowds that are looking for Creed, or Britney Spears just are not
interested in what we do, and they don’t ever get it.
What kind of demographic comes to see you play? Are the kids getting into what you do?
Oh Yeah, we have opened for some really good indie bands. We played with [Mogwai-esque post-rockers] the Shipping News a few months ago.
Our fans are mostly college kids that are into challenging music.
The old-heads opening for the upstarts then.
I was familiar with their other groups Joan of Arc, Rachel’s, Slint and my friends were
listening to their records before we played with them.
There was no “mentoring” going on. We hung out and drank beer and they
asked questions about my weird guitar, but that is about the extent of our
relationship.
Any anecdotes of obsessive fans or deranged groupies (excluding myself) you’d like to divulge?
The only one I can think of is about “the guy who insisted on helping me carry my gear at the Knitting Factory in NYC”
This random guy insisted on helping me carry my gear at the Knitting Factory, and he tripped and dropped my pedalboard (which was in a softshell case), breaking the input jack of the DC power. I had to franticly cut the ends of all the wires and splice them together with electrical tape before the show. I spent the next day running all around NYC buying replacement parts, and getting my gear fixed.
Moral of the story: Never let other people move your gear, unless it is in a hardshell road case.
I think I might adopt that as my life motto. How important is your relationship with the other players in a group? America’s Next Hero is a duo so I assume it’s pretty vital the two of you have a good communication.
Jim [tabla] is a fantastic musician (one of the best that I have ever seen), and a really inspirational and wonderful person. I feel really lucky that we have gotten to hang
out, and play music.
Improvisation in music is usually either ignored or misunderstood by the mainstream. Can you describe your approach to recording and writing?
I will have some type of melodic theme or motif that I start out with and then we just develop. Jim will play along with me in a supportive role, or he will challenge me and push the music in a new direction.
All of our recordings are recordings of live performances. Sometimes, we set up in the studio and play for a few of our friends, and other time we record our live performances.
So you don’t have any conception of what the final result will sound like?
Most popular music is like a high school composition, based on a formula. Now, there is some great pop music based on that formula, but not many people are trying to develop or even experiment with new approaches.
I feel like our music is more of an investigation. We try to start with an open mind, unsure of what we will discover. The evidence we find guides use to the next logical step. Ultimately, we are solving a problem, and solution unfolds through investigation.
Writer’s block isn’t a problem for you?
No, the only thing that slows me down is a lack of resources. I have been lucky receiving grants, and minor support from benefactors, but the bureaucracy involved can be challenging.
I find it hard to listen to my old recording. I always like I’m improving and growing, and wish I could re-record some of those old songs.
You don’t get too involved in the commercial side of things then?
I am really trying to create great art, and I know that I should spend more time on publicity, marketing, finding a booking agent, etc… I just don’t enjoy that aspect of being a musician, and the returns for all the effort isn’t usually very good.
Improvisation doesn’t translate very well to record companies who want a product that is consistent. How do you see yourselves as compared with song-writers?
This is not strictly process oriented. I think we are more like detectives. We have spent years honing our skills, and we have a set of tools, and we often find new uses for our tools during the investigation of the problem.
There is certainly a lot of formulaic music out there, with some good and some not so good results. But even within an “investigation there are rules and limits.”
You must at least have a some kind of formula for how you are going to carry out the investigation. I recently read about a band, I think on Load, who perhaps were aiming at the same thing. They never repeated a performance. What does free improvisation give you over more ’song-based’ music?
We improvise everything in America’s Next Hero, but I also play music
that is through composed, music that combines both.
I think that improvised music is similar to having a conversation. There
is a dialog between myself and the other musicians. We have a shared
language that is based on traditional music theory, but we also have a
language of sound that we have created “collectively.”
I am very serious about the music I play, and I always try to tell a story
through the music. Music that is composed, I always tell the same story.
Music that is improvised, you never have any idea what the story is going
to be. The only thing that is agreed upon is “a story of some kind will be
told.”
And what about the down-sides?
The disadvantages of Improv based music are mainly related to the small fan
base of the style. I’m sure any musician that has the skill set to play
impov music will tell you that it is incredibly fulfilling. Now, if you
ask the audiences, they will say that it’s not much fun to watch unless the
group is really top notch.
Well we’ve established you are, indeed, America’s Next Hero but who was America’s Previous Hero?
It was obviously Jimi Hendrix, Jackson Pollack, Kurt Cobain and every other artist/musician/business man who continued to fuel the “romantic ideal” of “The American Dream” by overcoming poverty to become a self-destructive pop culture icon.
You must have been saddened by the death of [Improv legend] Derek Bailey last Christmas. I see a lot of parallels between the two of you.
I was introduced to Bailey through his book “Improvisation – It’s Nature and
Practice in Music.” I was at the library looking for method books on Jazz
Improvisation (Bebop), and I stumbled onto the Bailey book. I read the book before hearing his music, and it left me intrigued. I had to hear Bailey’s
music, but in 1989 you couldn’t just go down to the local record store and
buy a CD.
A few months later I was in New York City and bought a couple of CD’s
at Other Music. Aida was my first exposure to his playing, and it blew my
mind.
What was it about that record that so intrigued you?
It was like he had never heard anyone play guitar. He invented a
completely new language for the instrument, not a hint of Django, Jimi, or
Wes, It was 100% Derek Bailey. It was like he created an entirely new type of “music”.
How has he influnced your own music?
This music inspired me to experiment with new combinations of
instruments, and to concentrate on performing with Sound Research Project
which focused more on the experience of the performance and improvisation.
I could say it focused more on the process of creating sound. I conducted
the SRP group by projecting images of drawings from a slide projector. The
images all had strong emotional connotations, each having different meanings
to the various performers. The images projected ranged from drawings of
handguns and tornados, to religious and political iconography.
I still continue to create new Sound Research Project recordings with [Chicago-based Improviser] Ben Perkins who was involved in the original performances. Ben was the first musician I worked with that was interested in process oriented improvised music, and it was really exciting to find another person to collaborate on these projects with.
And are there any contemporary musicians you’ve been getting into?
There is some great new music. I enjoy music that is influenced by Minimalism, and Krautrock. I was really into Hip-Hop a couple of years ago, and I always listen to lots of jazz (mostly free-jazz and contemporary).
What’s on your i-Pod?
Polar Bear – Held on Tips of Fingers; Jeff Parker – The Relatives; Tony Rice – Manzanita; Kailip – (rough mixes of upcoming CD from another Larson project); Ellery Eskilin – Arcane Moderne; High on Fire – Blessed Black Wings; Mastodon – Leviathan; Jesus Lizard – Head; Them – Them; Aesop Rock – Labor Days; William Parker Trio – Scrap Book; Kronos Quartet – Black Angels; John Coltrane – Interstellar Space; John Adams – Violin Concerto; Captain Beefheart – Doc at the Radar Station; US Maple – Purple on Time; Ernest Dawkins New Horizons – 30 years of great black music Vol.2
That’s quite an eclectic mix: Metal, Psychedelica, a lot of Hip-Hop, Indie rock. Do you think they have any influence over your own music?
They all influence my playing. I try to keep my sound palette open to any
idea. I think the America’s Next Hero recordings show influences of all those styles.
What doesn’t influence you? Is there any direction you wouldn’t want to see America’s Next Hero going in?
I can’t really answer the question, the music is about “what we can do”, and “what we are good at.”
Is it safe to assume you’re not a fan of the music industry machine?
No, I think major record labels, greedy business people, MTV, and the “herd mentality” are the music industry’s biggest threat.
What do you think of the recent advancements in technology that have enabled bands to get their music out to wider audiences such as Myspace or peer-to-peer file-sharing. Will it result in the advent of true democracy or a lot of broke musicians?
The record industry embodies consumerism, and this conflicts with my
ideals about art. I’m trying to create great music, that is challenging and pushes boundaries. The record industry is trying to “make money” and that is their only commitment, they don’t seem to care about art or artists.
The best artists are the ones that sell the most CDs. This makes the assumption that people with enough money to buy CD’s are experts in determining what is “great music.”
You work in many other mediums outside music, particularly with sculpture. What elements do the two have in common in regards to the creation process? Have you learned anything through working with sculpture that has helped you as a musician and vice versa?
My musical training has helped my sculpture tremendously. It has taught me to approach the installation in a very complete way. I am concerned with every aspect of the viewer’s experience in the gallery.
I understand the development of themes, and use of motifs.
Who do you admire in that world?
My wife, Millicent, is a very talented painter, and the most creative person I know. She inspires on a daily basis.
And who do you admire outside of the art-world?
My friend Shawn Blythe who lives in NYC and works as a photo retoucher. He’s successful in his field and is amazing intelligent, and brilliantly informed about contemporary philosophy and literature.
My friend Paula who was the first person I knew to successfully fulfil her
career goals/life’s dream.
Sorry, they aren’t more glamorous.
Everyone seems to be making post-911 ‘political statement’ records these days. Especially as an American artist there must be pressure to make some kind of commitment either way. Is Lou Larson going to keep out of that melee?
I think the current political situation is bad, but the only solution is for people to become self actualized, and educate themselves. This is never going to happen. Most people are selfish, not smart enough, or motivated enough to change anything.
You’re President for a day and can bring in one piece of legislation. What do you do?
I’m not really qualified to answer that question, but it would have to be something to improve the inequities between the rich & the poor.
Globally or within the US?
Both! I believe that you would have to be educated enough to understand what [the general population] contribute to the problem, and that we don’t need cheap tennis shoes and televisions enough to have children working in sweat shops. That people as a society have to take a stand, possibly against their families or neighbours.
Finally, what’s your poison? I’m buying.
Vodka. I used to drink red wine, or Bass Ale. I recently discovered that Vodka doesn’t have anywhere near the hangover potential, and it makes me half-crazy when I’m drinking it.
Thanks for your time, Lou. Stay frosty.
Larson is currently involved in several other projects. Kailip can be found at www.myspace.com/kailip and 3-Legged Stella should have a new cd available soon.